SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Exit Proof Podcast, the show for entrepreneurs ready to build a name that outlasts their business. I am your host Kwame Kwade, an Inc. 500 founder, Shark Tank Alum, and Adjump Professor of Finance at Johns Hopkins University Kerry Business School. Every successful business has a story, but the brands that endure are the ones that know how to tell that story in a way that builds trust and creates lasting impact. Today's guest has spent his career helping businesses uncover what makes them unique and turning that into brands people remember. Joining us today is Colton Mulligan, CEO and principal strategist of Fox Fuel Creative. With nearly two decades of experience in branding, marketing, and business strategy, Colton has helped organizations grow through authentic storytelling and strategic positioning. He is also an entrepreneurs organization forum trainer where he coaches founders on leadership and building businesses with purpose. Today we will dig into what it takes to build a memorable brand, lead with authenticity, and create a business and a name that stands the test of time. Colton, welcome to the Exit Proof Podcast. Glad to be here, dude. I'm hype. Alright, so I am going to start with a fun one. I went to your personal website, and I have to say that you are one of the people that when it comes to personal web, you know, presence, you have some of the most exciting content. And I went to the video collection page, which is a video of your family and events. And right at the top, and I want to read the verbatim, you have something that says, I think it's addressed to your mom. You said, Mom, if you are looking for the playlist of home videos, click here. And it literally has a button that says, you know, Mulligan Home Movies playlist.

unknown 2:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

I'm sure there's a story behind that. And I want to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Uh, I mean, I don't I don't know the story's all that exciting, but I mean, at the end of the day, I love making like little travel films and stuff, little recaps um of hey, what we did on adventures, and uh I consider myself pretty good at videography and editing and whatnot. Um, when I edit some of these videos, I cry because I like there's just so many special moments captured across travel, and now that I got young kids and stuff. And in my own business, my creative, uh like my creative director and business partner, I'm too unreliable to like get work projects done. So my creative outlet with all those skills is just personal projects. And so, anyway, with that, and then you know, like parents and stuff, they're not always great with technology. And so it's like if you type in Colton Mulligan.com, the person I care most about finding stuff is my mom to make it very easy to like find the slow motion bird videos, find the cruise video, find the Japan video, etc. Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah, yeah. So you started you talked about parenting there. Um, how has that been for you in terms of like just for me? There's so much I've learned about myself, uh, and so much that my kids have also taught me, you know, it's each of them. Um, can you share from your perspective what parenting has taught you about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Can you go first? Because you've been doing it a lot longer than I have, and I'm still I'm still learning. I got a four-year-old and an 18-month-old. I'm still learning, dude.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Well, so one of the things I was thinking about, like each of my kids, and so you know, three kids soon to be 18, 16, and 14, and each of them teach me something, you know, and I think that my oldest Ava has really taught me how to like c walk down a you know a ledge when you're talking to people. Like, you know, she will be having conversations and she's very opinionated about something, and then if she gets good information, she'll be like, Oh, you're right. And that was something that I never really could do because once I dig my teeth into something, I want to prove that I'm right, you know, and I'm I'm um I keep digging. And she in the middle will be having this conversation where she has strong beliefs, and then you give her a different information and she realizes that oh, she was wrong, and she'll be like, Oh, yeah, you're right. And then I'm like, Oh, that's it. So I think that that has you know taught me to like, okay, you know, you don't have to always feel like you can you should keep digging, you know. You can calm down.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Did you know that your daughter is more advanced as a stoic than I am? Uh which one of the tenets is you always have the right to not have an opinion, and you should always be ready to change your mind based on new information, which I love. Or I'm embracing now because I used to do the same thing. I'm more interested, I used to be more interested in winning the argument than actually being right. And so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Yeah, yeah. So I I I now I'm like, okay, I should pay attention more. And then one of the things I've learned recently is like listening to change your mind. You know, that if rather than listening to understand, listen to change your mind. And so it's one of the things that especially with my wife, I've been practicing. Like, if if if because I'm waiting for you to be done, so that I can tell you my peace of mind, or I can tell you what I think it's. And so now I'm listening, like, hey, maybe she might say something that may make me change my mind. And I learned that from EL GLC recently, which for the audience who don't know, Coltine and I are members of Entrepreneurs Organization, an organization that I absolutely love. And one of our uh big conferences, the Global Leadership Conference, uh recently in uh Dublin, that is one of my takeaways that I got from one of the breakouts. So yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Yeah, I was about to say, I was like, dude, you're practicing the tenet of forum mindset, one of the four cornerstones of being in forum in your daily life. So you get a gold star right there. Can you add a gold star, like a little animation right there?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Well, I don't I don't know how to do that, but I'll figure it out. So segue. Segway into um you are many things, but how do you introduce yourself when people ask you, what do you do? What do you say?

SPEAKER_01 7:28

And the first thing I say is uh hey, I'm an entrepreneur with two of my best friends in a creative agency called Foxfield Creative. And then if they ask questions about that, I do that. And then I say, secondarily to that, well, I mean, if you're asking on the business front rather than the personal. Oh, no, just just anybody, you know. Yeah, I say that. And then, you know, and then the other thing they say, oh, that's really cool. And then I say, hey, another thing I'm passionate about is uh is EO Entrepreneurs Organization, just because I have a big deep value in finding belonging and not feeling alone. And I found that organization nearly a decade ago, and through that organization, I just went all in. And so I'm now a trainer there. I work with forums, I work with chapters and boards and uh, you know, uh, you know, across, I guess, in across the world now, but a lot in the US. And I love that stuff. And then my joke is like, I get paid to make entrepreneurs cry, is like my joke. Uh, because on retreats and stuff, it's a lot of you know, uh all the reflecting on life and planning and gratitude and you know, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Right, right, right. And so I want to dig into the creative agency part. I mean, I read your story, how you get, you know, you started this agency with your your two friends, and you guys, you know, obviously are I think 10 years into it now. Um what you know, and and I feel like you know creative spaces are at an inflection point right now when it comes to what's happening generally. I mean, I'm you know, I touch, you know, we are a content shop also, so we kind of like touch a little bit of that. So we are also seeing all the things that you know, what do you think is the state of the creative state space right now, and how are you guys adjusting to that?

SPEAKER_01 9:22

I'm constantly pivoting uh and talking to other agency owners. Nashville's a very collaborative space, but what's interesting, uh, there was a dinner recently with like a dozen agency owners of like, you know, an agency at a scale where you at least have employees and you know, billings and you know, north of a million, just stuff like that. And my business partner went through it. I had a conflict, and he said that like there was a really consistent thread right now of, you know, it's a soft market for some folks. And it wasn't that the industry is dying, but it's rapidly changing. Expectations are changing uh from what clients expect of you and what you can come to like expect of your employees, and I guess like expect of yourself. Um I don't know. I I think it was very interesting. So at least for us, that's us where we're even considering all right, if it feels like a commodity, we don't want to do it. Which means if it's anything that's based on commission or hey, we take a markup fee on media buying, like anything like that, I don't want it. I want you to work with Fox Fuel because you believe we are the best damn shop that can make are are you gonna censor that? I'll I won't cuss. That will make your look good, where you are proud of like, dude, if you see our website, our brand video, if you see this new campaign, if you see all of that stuff, I like we only work with like 12 clients a year, and eight of those are continuing clients. We only need four to six new clients a year. And so fortunately, and I guess I'm talking all over when people are like, are you scared? I I let the gig is like people are like, Oh, are you scared right now? I'd be scared if I had a massive agency where I got 100 mouths to feed and suddenly, like uh, you know, two coders and Claude can do what a team of 12 could do two years ago. I'd be scared about am I gonna float these people, upskill, change my services with three business partners and four or five employees. I, you know, I I have I have a uh a lot more flexibility in how we pivot and experiments that we can take because just percentage-wise and size-wise, like it's okay. If I can't justify this right now, it's okay. I can I can float this on billings and do it while we figure out what's our what's the new way we offer services and what does our team structure need to look like.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

What do you think client expectations have, how do you think client expectations have changed in this era of AI where they're getting ads telling them click a button and do this or put a prompt here and do this or generate this in a second? How does how has client expectations changed and how are you positioning yourself to to to really show them what you guys do, the value that the value add in this noisy space?

SPEAKER_01 12:15

I I don't feel like I have the authority to speak writ large on it. I can tell you because we are also incredibly selective with our clients, I think you're right. There's a ton of folks that are like, dude, click a click a button, roll out a campaign. Why wouldn't I? There's a contingency of clients that they can't tell the difference between AI slop and good stuff and like good work. And so it's fine for them. But fortunately, like those aren't my clients. I need I need half a dozen new clients this year. So in my prospect calls out the gate, in the first 10 minutes, they're gonna hear me talk about our pricing, our services, what we're good at, what we're not good at, so I can get off the call quickly, which is at bats, which is kind of a theme for me. Um, so I would say for some, yeah, and the pool of agencies that serve those clients, uh I don't know, I'd be worried about them. Our clients and the clients we like to have, their expectations have changed, fortunately, in line with what's great capabilities and honestly serves us well. Which is, hey, yeah, you pitched us on a campaign concept. Previously, I might pull together stock imagery and do this. Whereas now, even if it's a campaign like Middle Tennessee Electric, we're doing campaigns for them. Well, now I can get AI to render, you know, stuff that's shots that would be dangerous otherwise. I need a storm in the background and I need a lineman up there repairing like telephone line uh or telephone lines, uh uh uh electricity, uh the electrical grid. Why can't the benefit is we may want to get shots like that, but you're talking about a $100,000 shoot now. And for the cost of you know, $100 in software, I could say, hey, do you like this concept? They can react to it. And so what I would say, it lets us progress to good work faster, but because they want to show their own people, we want them to show their own people, or we want to show their own people, but for a couple of dangerous shots, we're gonna replace it. So that's what I would say, expectation-wise, and what we can deliver on. I don't have to stop at like verbally trying to get you to understand something with static pictures that don't look like your folks at all, to now pivoting to like, oh, we can get to better work faster. Right. Um, so I don't know if that's a great answer, but no, no, it is.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

It is, you know, the the thing that you said that jumped out at me is get into better work faster because you can show you can show the concepts, you know, in in more vivid form quickly, you know, so that they can see where you're going with it, you know. So and and it allows to do that. And my last question on this, because um, you know, I'm just curious, you know, where do you see, you know, independent of what you guys do, independent of your your you know, the kind of clients you work with, just from your own perspective, where do you think this AI thing is going when it comes to like uh content, video, and and all that? Is it you know the creative mind and the creative person who wants to still shoot that video and put that concept? Is that is there a convergence somewhere or is there a divergence somewhere?

SPEAKER_01 15:33

I'm gonna try I'm gonna answer what I think the question is. How's that? Because it's a that's a rich question. Um, and my head jumped into a couple different places. I'd say, which people have been talking about this for years, we are still at the place where like we don't know what we don't know, and so it's advancing so rapidly. And you're talking, I would argue, on like two scales. There's a B2B realm and an individual realm or a business realm of this, and then there's a consumer realm for it. Um, because for example, like at the consumer realm, like Netflix and stuff, I think in five years, you're gonna describe the kind of show you want to watch, and it will generate 20-minute episodes for you. I like I know I I've heard that, like, that's not an original thing. I've heard that from others. I think it's super accurate, right? Uh, and I don't know what that world looks like. To dial it back, you still have, you're gonna want, I guess. Let me take a step back. Here's where I think it's gonna head. I think you're about to see this swing back to like what influences are and whatnot. People want to feel like they know individuals, right? And I don't know, fact from fiction might be difficult for a while, but there's enough times where like I think you're gonna see things anchored, and like, oh, that's a real person. I saw that I went to an event with them, whether that's a concert or sure a play or a conference, and then I'm I am now attached to individuals, whereas like entertainment may still pivot differently for what that looks like. Right. So, but that's the thing. Like, I don't know, like I'm in love with Kwame. All right, great. I I think that you may still own your personality and whatnot, and then you're gonna decide do I have a digital version of Kwame that's able to pump out a 10-minute video every five minutes, right? Like, and then you just let the stuff float to the top based on what folks like? I don't know, it's a really interesting space for me, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yeah, no, for you. Yeah, yeah, no, no. One of the things as somebody that's online daily, now I'm trying to like, you know, even on YouTube, differentiate with the AI slob that's it's it's been cranked out at record pace. And so, how do you make people realize that you are a real person? You know what I mean? So, you know, going live, for example, you know, because it's like that's one of the the few levers that you have, which is like, hey, I am real, you know, so if I go live and I'm talking to you, you know, so those I so I'm seeing that a lot because the AI content is getting really good and and and scaringly good, you know. Um so so sh so I want to then switch topics to one of the things that I know you care about a lot and and you talk about a lot in on your web personal website and your business website. And so I watched um a WebMD mini documentary of you, um, and it is um about bipolar. And what what struck me was the fact that the documentary, you know, interviewed your your your your business partners, co-founders, um, and and how you know you know you talk about your diagnosis. I'll let you tell your own story because that's your story. Um, but you know, for me it was like the fact that it is part of how you work with your partners, how you work and and and and you know the swing between depression and manic phases and what it brings to the workplace and what it doesn't. So walk me through what you know specifically that part of like, hey, when I'm in that depressive state, I don't want to do anything, but I have these routines, and then how they are adjusting and working with you. I've I found that fascinating and wanted you to tell my audience because I think there's a lot of stigma, there's a lot of misconceptions around. So, this is your floor to just give me a background onto that. All right, there's a lot one, it's great. I know, I know, I know. I was excited to talk about this part because I went deep in it. I'm like, man, there's so much here I want to cover. So go for it. All right, well, hang on.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Let me tell you all right. Uh we'll will you uh give me a specific lane to answer to or speak to, and I'll do that because otherwise I'll talk all day.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

So let's start with let's start with why it was important to let your your your your your the people you work with know that you're dealing with this issue.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Can we start with the uh original? So to for what it's worth, because I don't know, I don't think they capture it in there, and I don't think it it opens with it. Um we had I didn't know I was Fox Fuel, I don't believe would exist without me being undiagnosed, unmedicated at all. Um, because my business partner had come to me and said, uh, my now business partner had come to me and said, Hey man, I want to start our own agency. Do you want to buy into this agency? I did not know it, but I was in the depths of depression. So I was having like the opposite of delusions of grandeur, like delusions of catastrophe. And I was like, Huts, I'm about to lose our biggest client. I'm not even good at what I do. People secretly don't trust me. Like I was inventing all this stuff in my head, and I was like, I can't, I can't do it. I can't, I can't buy into this agency that we're working at. And he was like, he left dejected. Six months later, I'm up in the highs of mania, and that was a scary time. Like, I had thoughts of self-harm. I had the thoughts like, dude, if I just turn the wheel and hit that tree, it's all over. I was a I was I was single at the time. I didn't have it. It was just a terrible time. Uh, I'm skipping past lots of the story. No, no, no, swung up. I I got on uh it's a long story, but that was January 1st, 2014. He and I talk in like February, March. Uh, and then I finally went to a I tried therapy and um I didn't really connect with my therapist. Then I went to my primary care physician who put me on an antidepressant and said, Yeah, I do agree with your therapist that you've got generalized anxiety, major major depressive disorder, uh, and uh and ADD. Have you tried new medicine yet? And I was like, No, I don't wanna. And she was like, You should. So she put me on A mild antidepressant called Well Butrin, aka bupropion. In three weeks, I was back to me. No more thoughts of self-harm, it was all gone. In another three weeks, I'm sleeping like four hours a night riding the wrong. Because if you got bipolar and you have something that all of a sudden cuts off the bottom and brings you up, I'm through the roof. My brain is flooded with glutamate and dopamine and norepinephrine, which is adrenaline every morning, which is the same stuff that hits the brain when you take a hit of cocaine. And my brain is just loving life. To be clear, I've never done illicit drugs, but I can imagine. I'm bottom of depression, thoughts of self-harm, tell my would-be business partner. And then fast forward to like May. And I chat him, I G-chat him while we're at work, and I'm like, hey, dude, remember when you talked about buying into that agency? We need to talk. Uh, I don't want to buy in, I want to buy out. I want us to start our own thing and go crazy. And he was like, he chats me, he goes, if you're serious, we got to get beers today because I'm about to leave. He was like, I'm about to take a job and leave and go elsewhere. We got beers, did it. Uh, and he was like, Yeah, let's do it. And we were like, we got to get Joe. Uh Joe's the third person like at the agency. I ran clients and strategy. Hutz was the creative director. Joe was CTO, technical code. The next day we got lunch, we got beers at the exact same booth, clicked drinks, and said, Let's do it. I'll skip past some stuff. Just note that like I had to put a second mortgage on my home. I sold my investments for retirement. I borrowed money from my doctor, my grandma, my dad. I put it all on the line, just being like, eh, because in my head, couldn't go wrong. And so what? If you go bankrupt to 29, what's the big deal? Uh, and that was it. So fast forwarding, I did we'd all filed the LLC. We'd bought out my non-compete and Joe's non-compete. We were doing it all launching in January of 2015, and my world kind of came crouching down um in uh in the beginning of November 2014, where I was in full-blown mania, flirting with psychosis, which is where you might need to be committed. And uh I just I made a series of selfish decisions that hurt a lot of people around me. And uh somebody uh uh a couple people had the gall to like confront me on it. Um, the gall, like I appreciate it. And uh anyway, so I had to tell my business partners in December, knowing we were launching in Jerem uh in January, I was like, hey, uh I got bad news. I have type one bipolar, which is why I've been wild with assuming risk and putting financially far more cash and assets on the line than I have to like do this thing. I was like, this is your last chance to like pull the ripcord. I know that we've already asked clients if they want to go with us, and they were like, Yeah, dude, ride or die, yeah, I'm with you. So sorry, that's a long story. Man, that's so far afield of what you did.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

No, no, no, no. No, actually, actually, that gives me a good background because two things jump out at me. Number one, um, is the fact that you're talking about how you know the maniac episodes just gets you to take like risk appetite, you know, and and and in the in the documentary that you know somebody said, you know, um like kind of like you know, they understand that they at some point they have to rein you in a little bit in terms of the ideas that come in because there's so much. And then in the depressive episode, uh it's understanding that okay, now we we can catch it, we can catch our breath and and digest everything. I thought I want people to I want to work with people like that, you know what I mean, like who kind of like get it, you know, and understand you for who you are. I thought that was really interesting. So, you know, like for you, do you you know, uh in terms of grace, uh during those you know, depressive episodes, I feel like that's probably something that is really important, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Well grace from others or grace for myself? Both, both. Yeah, I mean, for what it's worth, so that whole documentary exists because the chance that you're even gainfully employed, let alone what I I would argue we have a successful business, we've been around 11 years, you know, we you know have employed uh you know dozens and dozens of people over the years, um, it's abysmally low for you to have a business that doesn't go bankrupt, let alone just hold down a job. And that video, well every now and then I'll go back and check the comments, which I don't know if you scroll through the comment section, like folks will still watch it. And I used to like every six months I'll go find comments, and like the comments are heartbreaking, right? Like I I would be in a different place if I had people that loved me like this. He is so lucky, and it's it's such a moment of gratitude because there's no way I have no idea what I would be like if A, I didn't have Allie, B, my therapist Bethany, and then C, Hutz and Joe for the last 11 years, just personally, but then also the business. So what's great is that because when folks will like, dude, I can't take the credit for Fox Fuel. I am awful to work with because I'm full of idea, all that stuff. Uh and Hutz and Joe are great uh because they have patience, they learn. We have very we used to have meetings, which is like a Colton's going into mania meeting of like, what do we got to do differently right now? One, I have to have a self-ruled no emails after midnight because I can be a little hyped up on ideas and spin up all this stuff. It's like, hey, type up the email tomorrow morning. Why don't you see if it's still a good idea to not fire a client or spin up 40 hours worth of work for the team? Why don't we vet the idea by everybody first? Right? The grace that my partners have to know, because Hutt says it in the documentary. He says, How do I not extinguish the flame but still but but still just try and like vet the idea and manage the energy? That's the only reason.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

So I don't know if that answers the question, but that's so great. Um, so um one more thing there, because you talked about you know, one of the things that I wrote about was like people who are bipolar and being able to find employment and and being able to find, you know, and and and I felt like this was a good window into people under you know from the workplace. I don't even think employers understand what you know what they're dealing with and how to be gracious to it and provide an environment where the person can thrive. What would you say to people who maybe in a similar situation and are struggling to just like navigate employment or business or that? What would be what would be your advice to them?

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Systems and schedules. So because I'm I'm torn over this, like as an employer myself. Uh and and I know that we have like an employee, I would argue we have an employee-friendly environment right now, right? Uh, and all that depends, and employees may hate on me after that, but like I get it. I know that for myself, I don't have an option of being like, hey, I I need to take a six-month break. Hey, for six weeks. Like, I can't be in positions and responsible for client relations. I can't be dependent to the business if I just disappear and flatline for six weeks, right? And that's the caveat. You can make more money and you are attractive to an employer if you're like, you can count on me to do things. So it's what I would say is that I don't go totally dormant. Like I know I am at least responsible for these things in order to run my business and let my business partners count on me. Right. So that's the that's the weird like give and the take. Like, I I don't know, like if I didn't have Hudson Joe and didn't have it, I I don't know how employable I would be. I believe I would because I had my bare minimums. Every day I'm still gonna get to work on time and I knew my things. And anybody with a mental health disorder, uh like systems and routines are absolutely crucial to stability. The folks that go, oh, I'm fine, I'm not gonna take those meds right now, or I'm gonna, you know, overindulge in booze or drugs, like there's that. But there's also like eat breakfast at the same time, eat lunch, like so because there's all the times in depression where it's difficult, where it's like, oh, what do I want to do? I had this thing of like the next right step. The next right step, like, even if I'm not super productive today, opening my laptop and reading my emails is better than closing the laptop and laying on the couch. Okay, let's just do the next right step, which means I'm wildly less productive, but I'm still functional and I can still do like the critical things. Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

So I don't know if that helps, but no, that that does. That does. That's because you know, I I know that um in the documentary it was it was mentioned, you know, like you know, and I think that you talked about routines, and that's what jumped out at me. Like, have your routines and stick to it in even if you are going through a depressive episode. So I wanted to make sure that I highlight that because I know people be watching this that probably have a similar situation, and I wanted to to hand them those tools that you have experienced so well. So thank you. And switching gears, I want to talk about um legacy, you know. Um but I'm gonna start with um what do you you know when you talk about your friends and family as one category, your peers as one category, and the rest of the world, what do you think is your image that is out there? You know, what what do people think? What do you think your friends and family think of you? Um what do you think your peers think of you, and what is the rest of the world? And in each category, is that the image that you want them to think about?

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Dude, are we on a forum retreat right now? Like what? Like this is we're going deep. We're going deep. I don't know if I want to cry or not. Like you're you are asking, like, so truth be told, I do not spend I do not spend a lot of time thinking about that. For for better or for worse, it is one of the things that I believe has served me well. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about what other people think. Like it and I I've I've discovered that. Other people have said, like, well, why don't you don't you care? And I'm like, no, I I don't care. I I I learned long ago, I'm a polarizing individual, unrelated to the bipolar, or because of it. And I mean, you're talking back in like summer camp days and middle school, I learned pretty quickly I'm not for everybody. And so being able to like free myself from that, because I I can't imagine what I would be if part of my focus was on what do I want to do? Oh, this is gonna annoy these people, they're not gonna do it, or they're if I spend any energy on that, what I'm capable of is gonna be capped. I don't even want to spend any brain space thinking about what that category, because you like the line, you can't please all the people all the time. Great. I'm not gonna spend energy catering who I'm you know, who I am, what I talk like, what I'm I'm not gonna cater to those folks, right? So I say that because I don't know what category that falls into. Um, but I I don't I don't so I don't know if that if that answers it. The the short answer is I used to think I knew on those fronts. At some point, stoicism and self-awareness and 11 years of therapy was just like, dude, you don't know what people think. You gotta I gotta go with my gut on what I enjoy and at least the impact. Like I can see, I have a folder I keep on my computer uh on my G drive. Uh G drive on my Gmail. It's called it's the You're a Good Guy folder. Um, when I get an email back that someone says something really meaningful to me, like, uh, hey, I heard you speak at this thing, or I watched that document, or I did whatever, and I can tell it's meaningful, I try to read enough of it to write back a response of gratitude. I don't read the rest of that email, I mark it as unread and I drag it to that folder. Why? Because whether it's an entrepreneur or being bipolar, there's rough days. And there's days where even 11 years in, I used to have it, I don't have it as much anymore. But you know, there have been cycles in the entrepreneur where you're like, I'm an imposter or I feel bad about myself, or I'm a bad dad, or husband, or this, or whatever. That folder, it is like, it is, I mean, it's like the best emotional Snickers bar I could ever eat because it's this little like emotional treat that's a reminder of like sure, there's times where I am selfish, or I made a mistake, or I was boneheaded, or whatever. But that person, I must be doing something right if every now and then someone takes the time to send me a message that says I impacted them in a positive way, and there's empirical evidence that I can't convince myself is fake, right? Yeah, yeah. So it's a weird thing. Yeah, I'm nowhere near your answer, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

I have I I I you know my little version of that, which and I like I really like what you just said, and I'm I'm actually gonna steal it from you, um, because you're right. We there are those moments, you know. I even have one yesterday, you know. Um and and so we're like, you know, I'm an imposter. Uh maybe, maybe I I'm not as good as I think I am, you know, all and I did all that yesterday, you know, to my wife, you know, like, you know, and so you you get those days, and and and I agree. Um, so then that leads me to, you know, what is the thing that you are frustrated that you have not done, learned, launched, or experienced yet. I'm trying to get at like, okay, like yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

Which you could probably help me with this. Posting content. I my gosh, dude. I have all of the video editing skills. I have so much equipment. Behind that drawer, I've got probably $15,000 worth of camera equipment. Like it's, dude, it's inset, like the glass and the cameras, it's Sony, it's a treasure trove. I have all these skills, and there's something about my ego or whatnot. I've recorded at this point, literally, probably 80 or 90 hours of content for forum or this or agency or mental health or entrepreneurship or creativity. I can't tell you how many files are 80% edited, and there's something about my own ego where it's like it's not perfect. Don't, and it's not even what others are gonna think at this point. It's just, and like my dad used to say, done is better than perfect. And I am a victim of that on my own at this point. And my wife and even people in my forum have been like, I don't know why you don't post this stuff. And then they even gave me there. Here's 20 episodes I'd love to hear. Colton, why don't you have imposter syndrome anymore? Colton, how is it that you can convince people you're an expert when I know you're not? Like I have a joke about a five-minute expert at every cocktail party, right? And how to do that. I don't know why, dude. Why why can't I why can't I do it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Hmm. Is that what is that what is that standing in the way of?

SPEAKER_01 38:26

I don't know. I got time. I don't know. This is a thing that I'm exploring with my forum that I still don't know. And I don't know. Like, and that's the other thing. I don't have this belief that 10,000 people are gonna watch this video. Like that Web Ind has a good number of stuff on it, but high production value, blah blah blah. I don't know because there's a part the way I can justify it is when I have enough people in forum or or like because I do all this EO stuff where someone will say, Hey, how do you do that? The very specific prompt where I just think, okay, if I make this video, seven people have said they want to know this from me so I can justify it. So maybe there is an ego of like, I don't know, putting something out there and being like, here's how you do it. Feels like, whoa, Colton says he's an expert. And then like my forum goes, you literally are an expert, dude. Like you're down a very narrow lane, you're incredibly good at this thing. Why can't you just own it? And I'm like, I don't know, man. I like self-deprecating humor, and I'd rather just like make jokes about myself than post a five-minute video online. I don't know. You need somebody that will you could help me with this.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Yeah, I know, no. I think I can. We need somebody that would take it and and and and put a version of it and in front of you, say, this is what I'm gonna put out, and you have a yes or no, but you cannot speak say no, you know, all the time, and we're gonna push it out. And people, yeah. So then um, you know, but in terms of legacy, so now you are 11 years into your agency. Um what is what is next for you? And I don't mean like you know for a lot of us doing what we're doing now could be could be fine and we could do it, you know, for as long as we can. So that's you know, that's definitely a possibility. But when I talk to a lot of people, there is also something that they want to do. Um in terms of and their legacy is not necessarily the business they are in now, it may be a passion or something else. What is next for you if you're not doing what you're doing now?

SPEAKER_01 40:43

If I if I'm not doing Fox Fuel, is what you mean? Yeah. Dude, I'm gonna be doing uh I'm gonna be doing things that are centered around belonging and creativity and connection for a long time. Specifically, I you know I'm talking about EO forum, working with chapters. One of my favorite things right now is when a chapter hires me, which is for everybody else, it's 70 entrepreneurs that are in a city that all have million-dollar businesses or more. I love it when they come in and go, dude, I need you to run an eight-hour workshop that helps us upskill, learn about vulnerability and uh vulnerability and best practices and how to connect with others and have richer conversations. I that's my favorite thing that years ago would have been intimidating. And right now I'm like, give me that room. And then it is, it's just you. And for eight hours, I got to keep these folks entertained and excited, and you know, I have discovered that is a very narrow window of like stuff I love. I don't know what the future of that looks like. I know it is it is picking up more and more and more, and I balance that with like how much I do that because Fox Fuel is still my baby, my bread and butter, and and I love my business partners there. But if you said if Fox Fuel got hit by a meteor tomorrow, and it's some I won't do Fox Fuel forever, that is what I will do. But I am definitely ready. Like, I'm trying to, I uh two years ago, it was the year of palms up for me, which just meant I'm gonna quit pushing at things and doing that, and I'm gonna go palms up and say, what are the opportunities? What is life giving me? What's God giving me? And how am I gonna receive this year rather than like I'm that's what I'm trying to do going forward. Because I think it could iterate. I don't know. I work with EO and YPO, I work with public companies and their executive teams, and I don't know, maybe it's more speaking gigs that I do, maybe I don't know, something in that space, and maybe if Kwamey can help me, I'll get some content out there.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Okay, so you let's let's let we're doing it on camera right now. You have something that I need, and I have something that I don't want to say you need, but you know, you you probably could use. Um so let's agree on camera that you know you will help me with the workshop side of things so that I can master my my workshop flow, and then I'll help you with the content.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

I don't know what this looks like, but I'm in on it. Sounds like you're talking in-kind trade. Yes. Yes, right. I know that's off camera, but in-kind trade.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

You know, I I download what I you know, yes, and I get you to where I tried to go, and you help me get to where I'm trying to go. Yeah, I love it. Let's do it. All right, so so last section is about faith. You know, you are I've known you enough to know that that is in the corner, but a solid corner in everything that you do. Um, and one of the struggles that I've had, especially in entrepreneurial spaces that we operate in, is how my my you know you're dealing with like faith issues, you know what I mean? If issue like core faith issues and how to like you know you your you know your forum first and like how do you bring that into a a a a community that may not necessarily and you know receive or understand or perceive that and I've it's something I've struggled with how does faith anchor what you do and and in what way do you practice it even in places where you we would say circular environments the bottom of depression is where I found my core value I got one and I got five that stem around it but the one um comes from on January 1st 2015 we launched Fox fuel that was a year that was after a year of I mean I'll say it like wanting to kill myself at different moments.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Oh gosh I guess but like not wanting to live and it was a-okay if I got a terrible diagnosis or something bad happened to me. Coming out of that and remembering thinking nobody man I'm an imposter nobody knows what this feels like and feeling so alone and just wishing that I knew that some other people existed that felt that way. So on January 1st New Year's Day I sat in a chair for eight hours I was full blown hypomanic manic and I wrote this blog post. Um it's and it I I bought the URL and set it all up and it was called like publishedpublicly dot com and the theme of it it was like what you shouldn't publish publicly and it was four long blog posts and it just wrote about the last year that I had put it all online and uh in like 24 hours or 48 hours 10 it had 10,000 views I'd had about 120 messages across LinkedIn and Instagram and email and text message just people from all around the world and stuff and I'd say about 80% of them held the thing I had no idea that other people felt this way. Which just like broke my heart. And I but I was like oh there's a community of people out here that want to so what did all that boil down to it took me for them and years to figure out I hold a core belief that no one deserves to feel alone. And so it's what drives my EO work, my interactions in other circles and it's what I'm super low empathy when it comes to emotional intelligence, but that belief has changed it. I don't know what's going on in anybody else's life but I know no matter how much I disagree with them, I know that they don't deserve to feel alone. And that is my answer to faith these days. I came from a very I I still weirdly enough consider myself a Christian is one of the ways that I define my faith. I also love stoicism but I know at the end of the day I've been a part of churches and in spaces where I felt alone and I encountered lots of other folks that have felt alone. I know now that I try to operate through the world and spend time and spaces with people where at least I'm creating as much opportunity as possible for them to either not feel alone or find the rooms where they don't feel alone and like carry that kind of energy. That fills me with a faith that I think is different and it's hard for someone to be like let me convert you to my religion or let me tell you why it's wrong. That core center of faith which I think shows up in religion it shows up in Christianity I think it shows up everywhere it's I'm not gonna say it's indefensible but it's hard for you to be like Colton I disagree with you on that. You're at the wrong church right like so I I don't know if that answers the question but that's when you ask me the question that's what bubbles up for me by way of where I sit in faith right now.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

No one deserved to feel um that solid um is there anything I haven't asked you that you've been burning to share with the world that I haven't talked about yet one you could ask me Colton can you learn to talk uh more succinctly because I talk a ton of things no no no no no look I I I I I I actually want you to talk and take take it in different directions because it allows me to then pick which direction I want to go so no I love it. All right I don't know why it's still an insecurity I have and even my employees go why do you I have an employee that goes why do you say that I asked you a story you're telling me a story why do you and I'm like I don't know I'm insecure about it it's on it was last year's New Year's resolution one of them didn't succeed at it working on it this next year.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Maybe you shouldn't change maybe you should you should just stay with it you know man my forum says that I don't know um I want to learn to be more concise but you're right in the day of AI you can edit videos dude cut cut your 10 minute answer down to two minutes it's fine right okay um uh Claude released an anthropic they released a new model in the last week or two I went full blown manic my wife calls it like my robot girlfriends and she's like right so I don't mean I don't mean to cut you off but I was going to ask you that we're talking about the manic thing I was like man you and Claude Fable will be best friends so tell me about it.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Dude I I could screen share with you and show you I have uh so all the stuff that I've done when we started Foxville even five years ago we had clients come to us and say hey I want to get an app in the app store it's a hundred thousand dollars we didn't even do it because it was so complex you're gonna need 30 to 50 grand a year to keep up with updates I launched an app in a day and a half in the app store it's up or sorry it's not up I'm waiting today I'm supposed to get the approval from it it's forum timer it solves a problem that I've had you're gonna call Tim Apple and tell him I need to call you I need to call you because I've been going crazy with it too like I mean they extended it for another five seven days and I'm loving it. Dude real quick here's what I did. So I did that I've built two other apps they haven't been published yet forum playbook I've finished forumplaybook.com I'm rebuilding my own website that whole link to mom stuff I bought slowmotionbirds.com slowmotionbird videos.com because people have hit me up and been like oh that burning thing like and what's great I'm setting it up to run it literally one of them bought the domain set up the infrastructure pulled all of my video and designed a site and launched it and I was like this is insane then I spent yesterday connecting all of my wife's like calendars and emails and blah blah and all that stuff it runs we now do I say now but I'd always wanted to do it and I'd fall off because I'm terrible and I forget details I had a family meeting last night with me and my wife it created the agenda it in 30 minutes it caught so much stuff hey Colton you have this trip coming up you haven't told Ali yet what are you going to do for childcare? Hey here's this thing hey the honeydew list of stuff oh I forgot to change the HVAC filters oh here's the hey the Japan trips coming up you guys haven't booked flights go find it was insane and and then the connection was still the flow it gave it went to a thousandgreatquestions.com a website I built years ago with AI now it's making it an app and it sprinkled it in so she and I could connect I pulled from forum stuff and at the end of it was like this was amazing it caught the logistics helped us with vacation planning we got a date night now it saw and I was just like I did this in 12 hours yeah with the newest AI model.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Insane a few days ago I posted on Facebook that I am spending so much time like they said it was going to save you time. No I am building and building and and all the some things that I've I've had blocks about like for years that I couldn't make happen. I spend a weekend and I'm putting in I mean and I have felt like I am going to wee hours of the morning just like building things that tools and taking my things into interactive forms and it is exciting and I feel like I'm you know and so I when you talk about the the the media and I'm like man you and Club Fable and obviously you were you have been so that's that's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

So what what what what are you what what does that tell you um I let's bring it back to the industry and whatnot if you can. There are which in doing that I'm sure you experienced this my brain upskilled crazy fast on coding techniques and repositories and I've got a whole get my life is in GitHub my favorite recipes of the whole life it's all it's insane. I know here's what it told me which is what our core belief is which like we didn't even get into it. In the next five years a lot of jobs are about to be replaced and people are not going to have time to upskill I think universal basic income is coming I think all that stuff exists there will folks that are aggressively always the ones that want to which they talk about this right entrepreneurs and builders and even if you're not an entrepreneur but you're a tinkerer and an inventor like those people I think will always exist. Yep I think folks like that in that category what they are going to be capable of even if it's not a money making endeavor which I think it's going to become wildly possible you're I think it's there's never been a more exciting time I agree between a builder or a creator a tinkerer an inventor an artist but it's quickly separating like those that loved chat GPT six months ago I'm watching them start to go like I don't know dude it just chat GPT went downhill which it did but I don't know now I'm just I'm dizzy by the code and stuff and yeah they're not being left behind but I don't know I I'm I'm talking in circles no no no I I I I I want you to I want I I want to have this discussion because for me what I've discovered is that I the bottle there's no bottleneck like this I am not a coder and and and and if you ask my business partner I would tell you I have always said over the last 10 years that if I knew how to code the entrepreneur that I will be would have been in a completely different place.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

And so coding was kind of this thing that I was so jealous of that I didn't have but I didn't have the brain capacity to like learn it and I feel like so it was always holding me back because if I have an idea it is in somebody's world to make it happen and it makes it be expensive it would drag on it now I can sit there and with you know being able to know how to prompt it to even troubleshoot my own problems and take something that it builds and I can put it on the web live and I never had that skill and so for me it's like all that my creativity now can be brought to life in an interactive way that makes my clients and my people see the value that I would have paid somebody to show for my work I now can show it myself by just learning how to work with GitHub and Netlify and all this and then the next thing I know I'm like I'm out we got the same tech stack going on I went from not knowing what Netlify is to be like I think I'm a shareholder at this point.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

Which is not like I like I I've got 15 GitHub repositories and then a chief of staff that's auditing everything. We need to do another podcast or audit I think we should yeah I don't care what you do that I I'm in threads in EO where we're all just like hey dude all here hey here's my tech stack and here's a full markdown file write up of how and I'm just like it's so it's so exciting.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

It is it is exciting times. No it is and and for me it's like there's a level of you know okay now it's like okay you can build it you know then now you can go you know you you show up and you know that look you have a good product and it it it it it it highlights the value you wanted to show in the way you wanted to show it without any barriers you know what I mean so it's exciting times it's and it's a good way to end so we are going to do another one just talking about just tech and AI and building and and and learning curves and all that so Colton this I wanted this is the first this will be the first episode of the exit proof podcast because I wanted it that way because you and I did a podcast before and I I I was like uh things changed and I was like that was not going to do the justice to what I wanted to talk about. So I'm glad you agreed to do it again and this is going to go out very soon in the next 10 days and I'm excited to put it out. So thank you so much as always and uh looking forward to chatting again. Kwame you're the best my guy can't wait thank you see my dude yeah and that's it for today's episode here's the thing to remember your business may not last forever but your name can and that's what being exit proof is all about. If you are ready to build a personal brand that outlasts your business and opens doors you can't see yet then head over to our website at exitproof.com that is exit-proof dot com we've put together a collection of free guides and tools to help you get started and you'll find them all on our resources page and if this conversation earned a spot in your week then consider subscribing to the exit proof podcast so that the next episode finds you I am Kwame Kwade build something that outlasts you see you next time